Better Place Competition??
BNET has an interesting article today discussing the “Wired Wars” between Better Place and what BNET refers to as competitors. I'm not so sure.
While ECOtality seems to have an interesting fast-charge solution, they lack two key components of the Better Place ecosystem and business model.
1) AutoOS as a technology platform for charging management and partner innovation
2) Swappable batteries for long trips
3) Reduced car cost if Better Place owns and manages the very expensive battery.
4) Business relationships with clean energy sources
What else?
While ECOtality seems to have an interesting fast-charge solution, they lack two key components of the Better Place ecosystem and business model.
1) AutoOS as a technology platform for charging management and partner innovation
2) Swappable batteries for long trips
3) Reduced car cost if Better Place owns and manages the very expensive battery.
4) Business relationships with clean energy sources
What else?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by EVHappy on -
ECOtality I think just has a 440 Volt charger that has been around for a long time. They are used to charge forklifts. No competition to BP because they don't offer anything. It's not quick-charge. It's just a bit faster but still takes a few hours to charge a Tesla, for example (that is using their highest rated unit).
One possible competitor is Project Get Ready (notice the Project name?). They are out of the RMI and could either help or hinder BP depending on how things go. I'm hoping they and others will work together to get open networks with excellent standards so there are not 5 different and incompatible charge stations all over the place. Wasteful.
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Permalink Reply by Peter Hunt on -
Hey Neil;
Home Charging enough?
There has been some discussion about weather or not charging at home will be enough for many people.Advances in Battery technology in real time are making it so Phoenix motorcars SUV's and SUT's using the Altair Batteries will go 300 miles between charges and acheive freeway speeds in excess of 65mph.I have read advances in lithium ion battery technology at MIT are greatly reducing the charging time required for batteries down to like 15 to 30 minutes.And since A123systems is partially made up of some grad students from MIT I am thinking those advances at MIT are shared with A123Systems.Most work and home activities are less than 300 miles in any given day....so people will want to charge their own batteries if it works out to be much cheaper and convenient.
I have not read the Bnet article yet,I just heard of an alliance between Nissan and Ecotality(which is a public company,tickerETLY that has been in business for years making charging stations for electric forklifts etc.)Nissan will be a big player in the US with manufacturing facilities in Tennessee and global in markets as well.
What else;
Electric car as a second car,only used for around the town trips.
Then battery charging and changing stations are not needed as much.So:
Multiple plans from Planet Better Place;
Unfortunately,it comes down to costs, so PBP should have multiple plans:
One where they own the battery-(cell phone model)
One where they do not(where they can match the competion's plan for costs.)
Finally,with the United States as big as it is having a few players might get the infrastructure improvements installed quicker.
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Permalink Reply by willow on
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I am certainly less informed than most on this discussion board, but I am exactly who needs to be educated (50's, 100k professional). Please educate me about what car I need to purchase next, and why. Thank you.
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Bluecar by Pininfarina.mht, 523 KB
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Permalink Reply by Jeannie Collins on -
As my business teacher once said...
The phases of an emerging business
Forming
Storming
Norming
and
Performing
Now if the battery guys will get some standards we can design the built environment to be truly performing with time and resources restraints.
That will take some time. Evolving.
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Permalink Reply by EVHappy on
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Jeannie Collins said:As my business teacher once said...
The phases of an emerging business
Forming
Storming
Norming
and
Performing
Now if the battery guys will get some standards we can design the built environment to be truly performing with time and resources restraints.
That will take some time. Evolving.
Jeannie, Are you talking about charging standards? If that's what you mean then I agree 100 percent. If you mean standards for battery design then I disagree. The reason for that is there really is no practical battery technology yet. Many are close but more development is needed. Thus, the shotgun approach will work best. Let the best battery technology win.
It's all good because a specially designed electrical control system is needed for every battery pack. Think of it as a black box that will interface with the standard charge station. The charge station doesn't really care what battery pack or technology is used. I think this is the best way to go until we have some great, practical battery solutions. It's all about the battery. It's really the last piece of the puzzle that needs to be figured out.
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Permalink Reply by Matthias Ludwig on -
On March 11th an European alliance initiated by automaker Daimler and utility RWE was announced (by newspaper Handelsblatt).
The alliance of more than 20 leading European suppliers and auto companies are working together on laying the foundation for widespread introduction of electric cars. Already in a few weeks they want to agree on the cornerstones for the Europe-wide standardization of charging stations. This was told the Handelsblatt by representatives of the RWE group which jointly with automaker Daimler has initiated the alliance.
Mid of April it should be clarified how connectors and charging spots should be principally designed to ensure that electric cars can be refueled anywhere. The agreement is needed before billion-dollar investments in future technology can be triggered.
Members of the alliance are:
Automakers: Daimler, BMW, Volkswagen, Renault-Nissan, PSA, Volvo, Ford, Toyota, General Motors, Mitsubishi and Fiat
Energy suppliers: RWE, E.on, EnBW, Vattenfall, Electricité de France (EDF), Electracabel (Belgium), Enel (Italy), Endessa (Spain), EDP (Portugal), Essent(Netherlands).
As Better Place was not invited to join this alliance it seems to be a strong competition at least in Europe.
I still hope that the alliance will work together with Better Place and not against.
But my concern is that the big corporations involved want to takeover the bussines model of providing moblity.
And as these big corporations first want to secure their bussines the alliance might become another
oligopol in this area (like the opec countries) and this is for shure not the best for the consumer.
So Better Place keep going !!!!!
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Permalink Reply by willow on
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matthias ludwig said:On March 11th an European alliance initiated by automaker Daimler and utility RWE was announced (by newspaper Handelsblatt).
The alliance of more than 20 leading European suppliers and auto companies are working together on laying the foundation for widespread introduction of electric cars. Already in a few weeks they want to agree on the cornerstones for the Europe-wide standardization of charging stations. This was told the Handelsblatt by representatives of the RWE group which jointly with automaker Daimler has initiated the alliance.
Mid of April it should be clarified how connectors and charging spots should be principally designed to ensure that electric cars can be refueled anywhere. The agreement is needed before billion-dollar investments in future technology can be triggered.
Members of the alliance are:
Automakers: Daimler, BMW, Volkswagen, Renault-Nissan, PSA, Volvo, Ford, Toyota, General Motors, Mitsubishi and Fiat
Energy suppliers: RWE, E.on, EnBW, Vattenfall, Electricité de France (EDF), Electracabel (Belgium), Enel (Italy), Endessa (Spain), EDP (Portugal), Essent(Netherlands).
As Better Place was not invited to join this alliance it seems to be a strong competition at least in Europe.
I still hope that the alliance will work together with Better Place and not against.
But my concern is that the big corporations involved want to takeover the bussines model of providing moblity.
And as these big corporations first want to secure their bussines the alliance might become another
oligopol in this area (like the opec countries) and this is for shure not the best for the consumer.
So Better Place keep going !!!!!
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Permalink Reply by willow on
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matthias ludwig said:On March 11th an European alliance initiated by automaker Daimler and utility RWE was announced (by newspaper Handelsblatt).
The alliance of more than 20 leading European suppliers and auto companies are working together on laying the foundation for widespread introduction of electric cars. Already in a few weeks they want to agree on the cornerstones for the Europe-wide standardization of charging stations. This was told the Handelsblatt by representatives of the RWE group which jointly with automaker Daimler has initiated the alliance.
Mid of April it should be clarified how connectors and charging spots should be principally designed to ensure that electric cars can be refueled anywhere. The agreement is needed before billion-dollar investments in future technology can be triggered.
Members of the alliance are:
Automakers: Daimler, BMW, Volkswagen, Renault-Nissan, PSA, Volvo, Ford, Toyota, General Motors, Mitsubishi and Fiat
Energy suppliers: RWE, E.on, EnBW, Vattenfall, Electricité de France (EDF), Electracabel (Belgium), Enel (Italy), Endessa (Spain), EDP (Portugal), Essent(Netherlands).
As Better Place was not invited to join this alliance it seems to be a strong competition at least in Europe.
I still hope that the alliance will work together with Better Place and not against.
But my concern is that the big corporations involved want to takeover the bussines model of providing moblity.
And as these big corporations first want to secure their bussines the alliance might become another
oligopol in this area (like the opec countries) and this is for shure not the best for the consumer.
So Better Place keep going !!!!!
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Permalink Reply by willow on
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While I am certain that great ideas will be bought out by mega corporations, I am also sure that this time the people (you and I) will keep a close eye on the inovations and their buyers to ensure that we don't allow our government to subsidize a losing proposition just because it belongs to big business. Inovation must be kept fresh, just as it's name implies. Stagnant inovation in the name of profit is no inovation at all. Keeep your eyes on the ball, and good work!
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Permalink Reply by Steve on -
Speaking of mega corporations and subsidizing losing propositions - I bet if Better Place was a publicly traded company it's market cap value would be close to General Motors . I may be reaching a little bit but...? It goes to show what having a vision for the future can be worth. How about giving Better Place a multi billion dollar loan and letting them see what they could accomplish with it.
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Permalink Reply by Jeannie Collins on
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Makes sense for RMI to manage the commercial side and BP to manage cars.
very different markets.
EVHappy said:ECOtality I think just has a 440 Volt charger that has been around for a long time. They are used to charge forklifts. No competition to BP because they don't offer anything. It's not quick-charge. It's just a bit faster but still takes a few hours to charge a Tesla, for example (that is using their highest rated unit).
One possible competitor is Project Get Ready (notice the Project name?). They are out of the RMI and could either help or hinder BP depending on how things go. I'm hoping they and others will work together to get open networks with excellent standards so there are not 5 different and incompatible charge stations all over the place. Wasteful.
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Permalink Reply by Matej on -
willow said:matthias ludwig said:On March 11th an European alliance initiated by automaker Daimler and utility RWE was announced (by newspaper Handelsblatt).
The alliance of more than 20 leading European suppliers and auto companies are working together on laying the foundation for widespread introduction of electric cars. Already in a few weeks they want to agree on the cornerstones for the Europe-wide standardization of charging stations. This was told the Handelsblatt by representatives of the RWE group which jointly with automaker Daimler has initiated the alliance.
Mid of April it should be clarified how connectors and charging spots should be principally designed to ensure that electric cars can be refueled anywhere. The agreement is needed before billion-dollar investments in future technology can be triggered.
Members of the alliance are:
Automakers: Daimler, BMW, Volkswagen, Renault-Nissan, PSA, Volvo, Ford, Toyota, General Motors, Mitsubishi and Fiat
Energy suppliers: RWE, E.on, EnBW, Vattenfall, Electricité de France (EDF), Electracabel (Belgium), Enel (Italy), Endessa (Spain), EDP (Portugal), Essent(Netherlands).
As Better Place was not invited to join this alliance it seems to be a strong competition at least in Europe.
I still hope that the alliance will work together with Better Place and not against.
But my concern is that the big corporations involved want to takeover the bussines model of providing moblity.
And as these big corporations first want to secure their bussines the alliance might become another
oligopol in this area (like the opec countries) and this is for shure not the best for the consumer.
So Better Place keep going !!!!!
I couldn't agree more and I think, Better Place is loosing some ground here. Putting some standards on a table would be a strategic move for now, allowing BP to still play a leading role in this race.
Talking about Europe, here is another project leaded by European Commission: http://www.esafetyoffice.org/download/090305%20EGCI%20FEV%20EH.pdf
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